Throughout her career, icon Kate Bush has left a number of detailed soundscapes in her wake; something akin to miniature, exquisitely crafted snowglobes of emotion, if you will. Fittingly, then, Bush’s new album 50 Words for Snow finds the chanteuse singing hymns to not only the season, but to her entire career.
Jamie Cullum sits down with Kate Bush at her London home to talk to her about the album.
Listen: Kate Bush with Jamie Cullum – London, October 2011
(Goes into ‘Snowflake’)
Jamie Callum: On ‘Snowflake’, which is the, it’s the opening track isn’t it? That’s the first track, yes.
Kate Bush: Yes.
JC: Umm, it’s a beautiful track and when I first heard it and the voice enters the song, I wasn’t sure whether it was yourself, or, just, obviously I realised eventually it was another guest singer and of course it’s your son Albert isn’t it?
JC: Singing with a real kind of precision, almost like a chorister. I know he appeared on the ‘Director’s Cut’ and you had processed the voice. How did you get him into the studio to do that, was that just something that came up one day, or did you have that as an idea all along?
KB: Yeah, well I think when I wrote the song it was something that I wrote specifically for him and for his voice, and I guess there was a very strong parallel in my mind between the idea of this transient little snowflake and the fact that Bertie at this point has, still has a really beautiful high, pure voice which soon he will lose because as he grows older his voice will start to come down in pitch, and I really wanted to try and write something that would really show off what a really beautiful voice he has, and there seems to be this sort of link between, you know, the brief time that his voice will be like this and the brevity of the snowflake and I think his performance on this is really powerful, and obviously I’m quite biased because I’m his mother, but it’s interesting how many people have reacted so powerfully to his performance, it’s, you know, I think it’s really something.
JC: It’s very powerful and I think it really does kind of set up this record as something, I don’t know, something a little different because also on the second track, ‘Lake Tahoe’, it begins with some guest voices as well, can you tell me about them?
KB: Well they’re just two friends of ours who just have very beautiful voices but quite unusual in that they sound quite sort of, I suppose a lot of people would think of early music, and I suppose I was trying to set up something that sounded a bit kind of haunting, so they would set up the narrative of the story and then my voice would come in to continue the narrative, and also I quite liked this idea of playing a bit with men who had high voices but my voice would be quite low. (Goes into ‘Lake Tahoe’)
JC: That was ‘Lake Tahoe’ the second track from Kate Bush’s new album ’50 Words For Snow’. Well there’s a lushness to it; to the piano and the orchestration, but also I think one of the other guiding, kind of through-lines for the album to me is actually Steve Gadd’s drums. You know, I love the way Steve Gadd plays on so many records. Was he always gonna be involved in the record did you think? Or was that a process that you’d tried out some different drummers, or did you always want Steve Gadd for this record?
KB: Yeah, yeah I did, and again because I’d worked with him for the first time on ‘Director’s Cut’, and I wanted to work with him for a long time but actually in a way I hadn’t quite had the courage to sort of ask him, and he’s just so brilliant, I love working with him so much. He’s a really great guy for a start, you know, somebody of his stature could really carry a lot of baggage and he’s just such a sweet person, really down to earth, and his interpretation of music is just so sophisticated and I’ve just loved working with him because, you know, there’s a real kind of chemistry that starts to click in and some of these tracks were not easy in terms of their structure and approach, for a start, you know, for a lot of them I’d put the piano down already and it was a-rhythmic and also one of the things I was trying to explore with this record very much so was to try and move into a much longer structure of songs so that I could actually let a storytelling process evolve over a much longer period of time so you know, you could kind of travel further in one story, and so it was quite difficult for some of the musicians to work to, and in a way particularly Steve because, you know, he was actually working with just the piano and a voice.
JC: And of course none of these things were recorded to a click track…
KB: That’s right.
JC: So he was coming into something which, as you say, was a-rhythmic.
KB: …and he was the next musician that came in so I put the, especially the long songs, I’d put those down in one take and, so, you know, hopefully there was a feel to them, but then of course Steve had to work on top of that trying to sort of tell where I was gonna, you know, be going next and it was, I think it was really a very exciting process and what was great was that quite a lot of those tracks just sounded so good with just piano and drums, and although obviously there were other elements that I wanted to add, already there was this very sort of interesting feel that was happening.
JC: Well it’s interesting you should say that ‘cause one of the things I wrote down in my notebook when I was listening to the album was ‘piano and drums’ and the third track on the album is called ‘Misty’, and I have to say that’s probably my favourite actually, the one I listen to the most.
JC: And it’s got Steve Gadd kind of bringing this, kind of groove to it, almost like a bluesy kind of, spiritual kind of feeling to it, to me.
KB: Oh, that’s interesting!
JC: It moves in a, it starts to move in a different way to the previous two tracks…
KB: You know, the idea with that track was that ‘cause it actually just sounded so good with just piano and drums, and I was trying to get almost a kind of Dave Brubeck kind of feel really, and then of course the song starts to move through these different phases and different shapes and it was I think that was possibly the most difficult track to do in terms of piano and then drums. But I’m really pleased with how it’s come out. It’s the longest track on the album as well. (Goes into ‘Misty’)
JC: That was the brilliant ‘Misty’ from the new Kate Bush album ’50 Words For Snow’, definitely my favourite track off the album. That song has a kind of, quite a strong rhythm to it even though Steve’s playing is so delicate; it still manages to have this kind of propulsive feel. Do you feel like your kind of relationship with rhythm has changed a lot over the years, ‘cause you’ve obviously, you’ve gone through stages where you obviously recorded with a band in a room, and then you were working more with programmed drums and, you know, now you’re kind of back to working with more acoustic kind of drums.
JC: Do you feel like that has come full circle, or?
KB: I suppose I like to think that each album is really different from the one before. That’s really important to me ‘cause I don’t want to feel like I’m making the same record all the time. I want it to be just a completely new challenge I suppose, and so I guess it’s just the way that this happened with this record because it was so piano based and because I knew I really wanted to work with Steve, and it was really a matter of getting those two elements down first. Well certainly with, you know, a lot of the tracks, it’s just kind of how it happened, I don’t know if it was particularly thought through before hand really.
JC: So did it feel like a totally different process making this album, to say, making an album like ‘Hounds Of Love’, where you’re more focussed on perhaps creating, kind of, rhythms and almost ‘tracks’ as it were?
KB: I think it’s different each time, which again is kind of what I want because then I’m learning and I’m being pushed somewhere which I think is something that I kind of need really, and I really enjoy; that’s part of the buzz I guess, and I think ‘Hounds Of Love’ was… that was an interesting album to make because I’d just come out of ‘The Dreaming’, which was my first proper self production, and that was a really difficult album to make and it was in kind of two pieces where you had, of course when I made that it was for a vinyl record, not for CD, so you had one side which was just tracks and the other side which was conceptual. So it was really my first go at working conceptually, and then that kind of happened again with ‘Aerial’, I went for a conceptual piece on one of the discs, as opposed to one of the sides, and I think for me it is this evolving process that is actually, kind of in my head, it is going somewhere, its just a little bit, sort of, you know, a broken up process, but to me this feels like a natural evolvement really, you know, it’s not conceptual, and yet there is this sort of connection between the tracks, and you know, I was really pleased with the way it kind of, there’s a flow I think that goes through this album.
JC: I kind of feel like this album is like a, like a kind of a collection of short stories that have a similar theme really. I kind of almost think of you as kind of novelist in a way, because obviously you’re not out there, kind of, touring all the time. You know when I go out and perform a song that I’ve slaved over and I see whether people hold hands to it, or whether they jump around to it or whether they don’t listen, you know?
JC: You kind of know “Oh that one worked” or “that one totally didn’t work like I thought it was going to”, is that something you ever kind of think about?
KB: Umm, not in that way, because it’s such a long time since I toured, and I really enjoyed the tour, it was incredibly exciting and a bit like being part of the circus, but then I kind of made a really conscious decision that I wanted to concentrate on creating new material and I wanted to become very involved in the whole production and, you know, that was kind of what then drove me from that point and I think I really love making albums and it’s been great for me with these last two records because they’ve both been so different from each other and such a sort of interesting process in such different ways and also I’ve really enjoyed the visual projects that we’ve done with these as well and that’s great because at least although I’m still working creatively, I’m moving out of the studio environment so I don’t really miss doing live work at all, because I enjoy what I do so much and I was just so delighted to be able to get this record ready for this winter because, you know, I really had to pull my finger out at certain points because otherwise it was gonna have to wait until next winter ‘cause you can’t bring a record like this out in the summer and I also thought it was really funny ‘cause people are always going on all the time about how long I take to make my albums and I thought it would be so funny if I brought two out in one year (laughs).
JC: (laughs) A kind of perverse pleasure in kind of suddenly bringing all the buses at one time.
KB: (laughs) Yeah.
JC: I like that. Do you feel that, obviously if you have your own studio, it’s in your garden right?
JC: Yeah, I actually built a kind of small studio in my garden and I’m kind of now working out exactly, you know, the right time to kind of go there, now I have a child and a family and I know that’s obviously a great appeal to you, having a space where you can work that fits into your family life as well.
KB: Yeah. I mean when I was working on ‘Aerial’, that was exactly what I was trying to do. We had to build a studio, it was a very long involved process ‘cause we got a few things wrong in the early stages and then eventually when the studio was ready I had to learn how to work again because I couldn’t work in the way I had before I’d had my son because I had to be working in very small little snatches of time, I couldn’t spend these, you know, long sort of elaborate days’ worth of work just listening and it was a really, actually at first I found it really crippling, I just didn’t know how to do it, and then gradually I found a way of just being able to work for a couple of hours and just put it all down on the table and get it done and then go back and be with my son, because it was so important that I was with him, that in a way replaced the driving force, my driving force was to be with him, and he became the priority and that’s something that has been incredibly important to me, and in a way quite selfish because I really love, I just love being with him, and I love being a mother. So then I had to make the work fit around that, and it has changed but I think also my way of working has changed and I think actually it was an incredibly positive thing to be forced upon me, because suddenly it created this totally different discipline and I think, I think that’s good, I think it’s easy for, even if the way you work is hard, there becomes this sort of habitual, comfortable approach to things, and to suddenly be forced into a completely different sort of space I think is good.
JC: You’re a fantastic example of someone who can write within the world of the imagination, that you can go into deeply, kind of, uncharted waters. Is that something that comes, has always come quite naturally to you?
KB: Yeah I think it has, yeah. I think it just seemed to be something that I clicked with at a very early age, and I think also something that’s said a lot is that you have to be miserable to write something that’s good, and I’m not sure about that because I think, from my point of view I think some of my better work has been when I’ve been really happy, I mean, such as ‘Aerial’. I think of that as one of my best pieces of work, and it was very experimental and it was one of the happiest times of my life and I think, you know, that somehow has gone into the music.
JC: I’m Jamie Cullum and I’m sitting opposite the wonderful Kate Bush talking about her new album ‘50 Words For Snow’. (Goes into Wild Man)
JC: Can I ask you about ‘Wild Man’? You released that as a single. You have famously always kind of chosen your singles, maybe against what record companies would like, I guess, and now you have your own record label, and ‘Wild Man’ is the first single. It makes sense that it’s a single ‘cause I guess it’s, it’s more, it kind of gets into itself quite quickly, quicker than the other songs do.
KB: Yeah it’s the shortest one! (laughs)
JC: Well it’s the shortest one, did you feel kind of, but at the same time I don’t feel it necessarily, if you listen to that song, many peoples first experience of the album, they wouldn’t necessarily have a clue about what the rest of the album is like.
JC: And does that worry you, or is that almost intentional?
KB: Well it’s not really intentional but I think unfortunately that’s one of the things that goes with the territory of bringing out a single is that it doesn’t necessarily represent what’s on the rest of the album at all but I think singles are really important because it means people get to hear your music, and, you know, most people get to hear singles more than they hear album tracks, and hopefully people like it, they will then be lead to the album because, you know, obviously as an artist you want your work to get to people. It doesn’t mean you want to be the most famous person in the world, but you do want your work to be heard, that’s kind of the next part of the process when you finish making a record isn’t it?
JC: Well absolutely, I mean, I think the march of technology and the different ways we consume music now, the different ways music is heard, do you think that has kind of impacted on the way you work at all, or do you actually try and keep that outside of your thought process?
KB: I think it’s really difficult, the complete over use of, well, most art forms, but particularly music and film I suppose. You hear music everywhere, all the time, you know, it’s even in the back of documentaries and news reports now, places, nature programmes where there used to be a sort of sanctuary and this kind of bombardment of advertising which is always hand-in-hand with music and there’s almost a sort of slightly this feeling of music becoming disposable which I don’t think it is, and I think music is a very important thing to most people, but then, you know, when I’m writing, that’s another world, it’s nothing to do with sitting down and writing a song, it’s just unfortunately when your work is then released it becomes part of that kind of mad, mad world where everything is being shoved in people’s faces all the time.
JC: Do you like to think that someone would buy your record on a CD and go home and listen to it on a hi-fi and kind of sit there and listen to the whole thing?
KB: Yes. I would love that because I still think that the album is a really important art form.
JC: People try and tell us it’s not.
KB: Well, yes.
JC: And I obviously disagree (laughs).
KB: (laughs) Yeah, and I can see why people want to just pick ‘a’ track, and I think also, you know, I’m of the generation where I was brought up where you went and bought an album, that’s what you did, and there was a whole buzz about taking that vinyl record home with that great piece of artwork and it was a really exciting buzz, even the smell of the vinyl was all part of the experience, and I mean that, that’s really changed now, and I think it’s OK if people want to listen to tracks and put them in their iPod, but I don’t think that should devalue the art form of an album, and I think, you know, this is happening with a lot of stuff, that you can keep the old way of seeing things or the old technology alongside the modern, and, you know, ideally for me people would buy the CD because, for a start, I go to a lot of effort to get it mastered to what I feel is a really good quality sound and put a lot of effort into the artwork, and it’s, for me it’s a complete work, it’s not just tracks that are just kind of slung together, and of course if people are downloading, you don’t get the same sound quality at all, and I suppose you know, sometimes it’s a bit disappointing that a lot of people don’t actually care about the sound quality, but I think this is starting to kind of have a knock-on effect in the film industry now as well where it’s kind of, people want everything now, they want it as quick as they can, they don’t care what kind of quality, it’s just they want it now, and I think, you know, it’s kind of changing this whole thing of how people used to be happy to wait for things but wait for it in a form that was more enjoyable actually.
JC: Does the march of technology affect you in your studio as well, do you feel the need to kind of keep up with the way studio technology is moving, I know you definitely prefer analogue, to record on analogue tape, ‘cause it’s much warmer, but do you ever kind of favour the options that are slightly more convenient in the studio or?
KB: Yeah, we work with both, so hopefully, you know, we’re getting the benefits of analogue tape ‘cause, like you say, it’s got a lovely, sort of, warm quality, but also the convenience of Pro Tools where, certainly for editing, and stuff like that is so quick compared to trying to do it on analogue tape which would, you know, sometimes be almost impossible, but much more time consuming.
JC: Well I think it’s finding the balance between the kind of convenience of technology giving you more creative options, but not being a slave to it. I was very lucky ‘cause my first big album I recorded, I worked with a producer called Stewart Levine who said “you know what, I want you to make this album on tape” and I think, I’ve always been really grateful of that because you do have more of a sense of trying to get complete performances into something that speak a bit more, and I think tape really kind of makes you think about that.
KB: There’s this whole thing that goes with tape that’s connected to listening to stuff, and I think when you’re working on Pro Tools, it actually becomes a much more visual process and I find it really interesting how some people actually listen with their eyes, they’re watching where the edit points are, they’re not actually listening and it is different, it is different.
JC: Can I ask you about Elton John? (laughs)
JC: Erm, on, on this album there’s a beautiful song…
KB: Can I just say that we’re laughing just because of something that we were saying just before the interview; where every time people find out Elton John is on this album they just go “Oh my God! Elton John!” and we were just having a joke about all this, not about Elton, we weren’t laughing at Elton at all.
JC: Not at all, no, goodness me. He’s my, I’ve got this, sitting on my piano is a picture of Elton with his arms round me…
KB: Well I’ve got him sitting on my piano as well! (laughs)
JC: Well there we go, it’s a perfect, perfect start to this question about the track ‘Snowed In At Wheeler Street’ which is you singing this beautiful song with Elton, did it always start out as a duet this song? Did you write it with Elton in mind?
KB: Yeah, I did, yeah. Absolutely, yeah. It was really sort of, I don’t know if I could say it was written for him, but he was who I had in mind to sing it with, and I was so delighted when, not only he said that, you know, he would be happy to do it, but also that he was free because… I don’t mean that he didn’t cost anything (laughs).
KB: I mean because we were working to such a tight deadline on this album, and he’s such a busy man, I was worried, you know, he could be off on tour or, but it just worked perfectly and I think his performance on this is fantastic, it’s so emotive. (Goes into ‘Snowed In At Wheeler Street’.)
JC: That was a beautiful duet with Elton John, Kate Bush and the track was ‘Snowed In At Wheeler Street’. I haven’t heard him sing like that for quite some time as well.
JC: It really, it kind of really brings out the most beautiful qualities of this new, this newer voice he’s got, ‘cause his voice has changed obviously quite a lot over the years.
JC: And it’s really lovely to hear him kind of singing in that kind of register in such a kind of sparse, beautiful way like that.
KB: Well it’s quite a low key for him I think. I think part of that is because when I write for myself, as a female voice, sometimes that translation to a male voice is, you know, is sometimes a slightly awkward key for a male singer, so I wasn’t quite sure how it would be for him. I tried to write it so it was a little lower for me, and hopefully would be good for him, and I just love him singing in that key.
JC: Mmm, it’s beautiful.
KB: You know he just sang it and got it really quickly and oh it was just such a fantastic experience for me because he’s one of my greatest musical heroes, he was like, you know, I guess when I was growing up so many people who were well known were singer songwriters with guitar. There weren’t many who played piano and I just thought Elton was such a fantastic player and I loved his voice and his songs and he was such a huge inspiration to me and it was just so fantastic to actually be able to work with him and have him come in and sing on one of my songs it was, you know, without wanting to sound corny, it was like a dream come true. It was just great.
JC: I do want to ask you about the Stephen Fry thing as well…
KB: Oh yeah.
JC: Obviously the track, the title track of the album ‘50 Words For Snow’, it feels like a real, it feels like a very important, very playful, but at the same time kind of very serious kind of part of the album, which I guess sums up in some ways part of the concept for the record.
KB: Yeah, absolutely, it’s meant to be very playful, and I think what’s funny is ‘cause I’ve done a few interviews now, and all the interviewers have googled (laughs)
JC: Right (laughs)
KB: They’ve all googled the words, ‘cause they want to know, you know, what are these words and do they exist, which I think is hilarious! (laughs)
JC: (laughs) Oh God, I feel inadequate now, I didn’t get fooled I’m afraid.
KB: Well I think it’s great ‘cause everyone’s walking around with this bloody great reference library under their arm now, aren’t they? So, you know, basically the idea was that I’d heard years ago this phrase that there were 50 words for snow that Eskimos had. And I’d always thought well that’s just brilliant, you know, having 50 words for one thing and so of course when I was working on this album, of course it came to mind because of it’s connection with snow, and I started thinking that, you know, it would be quite fun to have my own version of 50 words for snow ‘cause of course it is a myth. Eskimos don’t have 50 words for snow at all, and the more I thought about it, the more I thought, well, actually, we already have quite a lot of words for snow, and so the idea was to start with quite ordinary words like ‘drifting’ and ‘falling’ and they would gradually get sillier and sillier, and more sort of manic and ridiculous, and I just thought how fantastic it would be to have Stephen Fry to read them because he’s somebody who has so much respect from people but he’s an incredibly intelligent man, and whenever he says something, you think it must be important (laughs).
JC: It must be important, yeah, I mean, that to me was part of the great part of the kind of playfulness of it, that it was Stephen Fry talking in his most elegant, kind of, open voice, you know, saying these kind of things…
JC: And also, but what’s he called? He’s called Professor… He plays the part of Professor…
KB: Joseph Yukib (sic) I think it is, yeah, and of course everybody googled that as well (laughs).
JC: (laughs) Who’s that! Actually you must have been quite pleased with yourself when you realised that you’ve fooled a bunch of clever reviewers.
KB: I just think it’s funny that everybody… I mean it’s great as well, but the fact that if somebody doesn’t know what a word is they just open up their laptop and look it up!
JC: Sure, yes.
KB: It’s like being at school again isn’t it? (Goes into the beginning of ‘50 Words For Snow’)
JC: I don’t think I’ll ever be able to say the word ‘avalanche’ unless I say it like Stephen Fry now.
KB: He has an incredibly beautiful voice, and I’d heard him… I mean I know Stephen from years and years ago, but I’d heard him reading like the Harry Potter books, and when his voice is disembodied from his visual self it is a remarkable voice in its own right, it really is very beautiful, and of course Stephen is an actor, and a very good actor, so, you know, I couldn’t have thought of anybody who could have done it better. Again, I was so delighted that he was available to do it, as well as interested. (Carries on with the rest of ‘50 Words For Snow’)
JC: That was the title track ‘50 Words For Snow’ from Kate Bush. You’re very honest about your work; I’ve read some great things about what you’ve said about, you know, the things you’ve done, but one of the main quotations that I love is that you say “it’s the best I could do at the time” when you’ve finished a record…
JC: It’s quite clear that you feel the same way about this record, but possibly maybe more positive about this record than about ones you’ve made in the past?
KB: Yeah, well I think I still can’t get over the fact that I’ve actually managed to do it in time!
KB: It’s so unusual for me to be able to work at that kind of pace, and actually I love, I really love working fast like that, it was great fun, it was just one of those albums that just seemed to just come together very easily.
JC: So do you think you will start something new quite soon afterwards? Is that hard to even think about at this stage or do you feel you’ve gained even more momentum from making this album in the way that you have?
KB: Well I’ve already got some ideas for the next one but I need to take some kind of break because I’ve been working so consistently for quite a long time now and I just need to sort of step back for a bit really, I think that’s very important ‘cause I think if you work incessantly I think it’s quite dangerous. I think you start to lose you know a sort of picture of… I mean that’s just me; maybe it works for other people.
JC: No, I think you really can, you can really lose perspective on what you do I think, and I think I found when I was doing so much early on I lost perspective on actually what I was good at and I started reacting to things that were possibly quite good but I’d totally lost perspective on it.
KB: And you know, it’s good to do other things as well, isn’t it?
JC: It is. It is. Obviously it’s coming out on your own label again.
JC: Does that have any kind of added sense of responsibility for it to do well? In what sense, what’s a record doing well in your eyes these days? Is it sales? Is it reviews? Is it none of the above? Or is it fan letters or?
KB: No I think that’s a very good question. I mean, what is a record doing well at this point in time because, you know, record sales are really, really bad, and I think that used to be a good way of gauging the success of a record and I think chart positions are always a good way of telling if a record is popular because it doesn’t actually reflect sales because of course it’s always relative, if you see what I mean. But I think that ultimately what’s important, from my point of view, as an artist when I make a record and I do the best that I can and I think there’s something there that’s interesting, I’ve always felt this; if it’s received well by people it’s the most fantastic added bonus and that, you know, if you’re happy with it, then that’s got to be what matters because if people don’t like it, and of course it’s more than possible that they might not, you still feel like you’ve done an OK job because if you were totally relying on how people reacted to it, and they didn’t like it… Well where do you go from there? And you can’t make something for somebody else. You can’t do that can you? You have to make it for yourself.
JC: Well I often think about how a lot of the great artists of the past would have existed in the world of like Twitter and Google because you’re now able, unless you have a strong sense of will power, you’re so able to read immediately what people think about you, and I think that can be really off putting because it can stop you following your muse or your goals. You can be so put off by one, kind of, snidey comment from someone who probably gave it a half a second’s thought.
KB: Yeah, you have to be really strong. You do have to be really strong. And I must say I do like to read at least the first sets of the reviews that come out, because I’m keen to know what people think.
JC: I walk around in the kind of delusion that everyone thinks I’m great, it’s fine, it’s an old Woody Allen joke, I’m just delusional.
KB: (laughs) That’s great, be delusional.
JC: At least you don’t go into the studio and cry. I think it’s lovely that the album ends, now I realise with ‘Among Angels’, which was the first track that you wrote of course, for the record.
KB: Yes, and has absolutely nothing to do with snow whatsoever.
JC: In some ways it is also possibly, you on more familiar territory, would you say? To your more piano-based songs of the past?
KB: Yes, it’s a much more straight-forward song structure I think, and although it has nothing to do with snow I felt that it’s, it had it’s place in there atmospherically, it just seemed to feel, you know, part of the same place that the other songs were coming from. (Goes into ‘Among Angels’)
JC: That was the final track from Kate Bush’s new album, ‘Among Angels’. Well thanks Kate for having me here, I love the album as I’ve probably said many times in this interview, thank you for the tea, thank you for the biscuits, and you know good luck with everything.
KB: Thanks very much, it’s a real pleasure. Thanks Jamie.